Val Selby [00:00:06]: Hey, this is Val Selby and after over 20 years online, I can track where my mindset has blocked me. If procrastination, impostor syndrome and a lack of focus have been blocking your biz, then Val Full Volume is here to help you see choices you are making. Get ready to use your expertise to collaborate like a pro as you create the business of your dreams. Now is the time to make changes and live your best life. Let's get to it! Val Selby [00:00:36]: Hello, everyone. I am excited. Yes. I have brought in another guest. I know it's quite a while, so I'm excited to have this full lineup of all of these people to bring to you because, you know, collaboration starts with talking to other people. But I'm excited because this is this is really unique. So I've got Ashton on here, and she's gonna talk about some stuff that, goodness, I'm almost thinking we probably should have videoed for you to to show what you do since it is so creative. But, Ashton, thank you for being here. And would you just tell my listeners whatever you'd like them to know about you? Ashton Rodehiser [00:01:17]: Yeah. First of all, thanks so much for having me. I knew as soon as we hopped on a call, we'd have a good time, so I'm so excited to see where the conversation goes today. Yeah. So I'm a creative entrepreneur, and I'm a live illustrator for a living. And I have been doing so for almost 10 years now, which is pretty wild to say out loud. Val Selby [00:01:36]: Excellent. In your bio, you're talking about making money in a niche where, I mean, how many generations? That's not even decades. It's generations upon generations have everybody been told, oh, you can't make money off of being creative. Ashton Rodehiser [00:01:52]: I know. I know. That's yeah. That's something that I really feel passionate about talking a lot about is sort of trying to dismantle the start is already mentality. And, like, we are surrounded by creativity all the time, and we pay a lot of money to actors and, you know, the things that we seem to get obsessed about, I think we forget that these are different art forms. Some are just more highly paid than others or people put a lot of focus and energy on them, but it's art and creativity surrounds us on a daily basis, and people are paid very well in creative fields. So I just find that such a odd statement, to be honest with you, the whole, like, you can't make money as an artist. You know, I just think that's ridiculous in many, many senses. Val Selby [00:02:47]: I see it a lot in people that are in more creative endeavors as entrepreneurs, devaluing what they do. I mean, we all kinda do when it's something that comes easy to us. But I really do see it a lot more in the creative niche of, you know, putting a $17 price tag on something, and it's like, are you kidding me? Nobody else can do that. Ashton Rodehiser [00:03:14]: Yeah. It it's a funny thing because we I think people just have a really hard time interlinking the two together, art and business. And they feel like two completely different worlds, which doesn't have to be the case. But, like, maybe if you did something else, it might make, more of a logical sense, you go, oh, this thing and business, they feel like they're interlinked, but there does seems to be such a varying contrast between the two. And I feel like, unfortunately, a lot of artists kinda get into this space where, well, I'm gonna stick it to the man by not charging or not dealing with the money side of things. Val Selby [00:03:55]: Right. Ashton Rodehiser [00:03:56]: First part of me is, like, if you want to do this creative thing in the world, you have to charge. If you can't feed your family or if you can't put a roof over your head, then who are you really sticking it to? Like, on yourself. You know? Val Selby [00:04:11]: Exactly. That's exactly what I was thinking. It's like nobody else as much about what's going on in our life as we do. Ashton Rodehiser [00:04:24]: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And I actually really love talking about, like, business and money, especially from a creative, running this kind of creative business for so long too because I find creatives, like, have a really hard time dealing with money, talking about money, figuring out what to charge, like, all of these things. And it's so emotionally charged, I think, in general, but you add your own creativity on top of it. And when someone says no to you, It feels like an attack on your soul. Val Selby [00:04:55]: Right. Because it is so personal to you. Ashton Rodehiser [00:04:58]: So personal. Right. And I had to kind of entwine some of those things. I feel like those first few years, I'm like, if they are saying no to this service, they're not attacking who I am as a creative being in the world. They're just saying no to the service. Yeah. End of a sentence. No emotional. Ashton Rodehiser [00:05:18]: What which, you know, I am a very sensitive and emotional person in general. Right? So it can be one of those difficult things to kind of untwine, but it's really important to separate in a sense. And as person who's charging for your work, you have to be able to turn on your creativity, like, in an instant. You can't get into the van, get into the flow. Like, ideally, great, but, like, you have to show up and be creative in that moment. That's why you're showing up is to be the creative energy in that space potentially. And you gotta be able to turn that on, and that's worth something. People have to pay for that. Val Selby [00:05:58]: Mhmm. Yeah. And that can be hard, especially if it's something that you've always thought of as a hobby. Yeah. So now all of a sudden you wanna make money from it. Is there a little bit of a mindset switch there with the, oh, I killed the fun. Ashton Rodehiser [00:06:12]: Yeah. Well, the first few years, it was more of a hobby. It was more of like a the side gig, but side gigs weren't even really talked about 10 years ago. Like, they wasn't really, like side hustles wasn't really a term. I don't remember overhearing it anyways. But it for me, I went to a conference for people who do this type of work from all over the world, and I went to that conference with a very specific mission. And I was like, I'm gonna leave this conference going "I'm just gonna continue to do this on the side, or I'm gonna go all in." Ashton Rodehiser [00:06:39]: I wanted to kinda soak up the energy of other people that are doing this. Like, is this possible for me? Right? And I think it's totally fine to have a the hobby on the side and you do it, you charge for it or you don't or whatever. I think it's important to charge at least something even if it's a hobby because you have to teach people that creative projects and endeavors and skill sets are worth compensating for, so I try to encourage people to charge something even if it's a hobby. But, yeah, I think you kinda just have to make a decision. Is this gonna be a hobby, or am I going to really try to build a business around this? Am I gonna take this to the next level, and it's gonna be more of my daily life or what have you. And I think either decision is fine. It's just the energy behind it. Val Selby [00:07:25]: Yeah. Yeah. I agree. And I run into that with all clients no matter what kind of business stuff they're doing. You know? You get trapped into the, well, I'm just I'm okay right here. It's like, alright. That's fine if it is a conscious decision of "I'm okay right here." Ashton Rodehiser [00:07:42]: Yeah. And I think that's a slippery slope. It's a slippery slope because what people say to me is, I have enough. I'm like, yeah. But what's enough? Have you clearly defined for yourself what enough is? If you cannot pay out of pocket for a vacation, to me, you're not making enough because you need to be able to do what it is that you love to do, and you're charging and what have you. But if you struggle to pay some of your bills or you don't have any money for holidays or you can't go on a vacation, that's not enough. And I think we go, oh, well, those are nice to haves. Ashton Rodehiser [00:08:21]: I'm like, no. No. Those are essentials. Yep. Taking time off and going on a vacation is an essential. Yep. Have you made the extra few thousand dollars to be able to go and not worry about choosing a menu item at the restaurant because it's the cheapest thing? I will be the hell that I die on when it comes to that because think it can be this, oh, it's enough. Oh, I'm fine. Oh, it's good. But I'm like, but is it, though? And have you done the numbers? Like, I am not a math person, but I love money numbers. I love looking at what am I gonna do? How am I gonna charge? What does this look like? You know? And my setting money aside for decompression time. Like, I cannot live illustrate every day, so I have to take that into consideration. Like, I would be burnt out. Like, I've been burnt out years ago. Ashton Rodehiser [00:09:08]: If you did it every day because it takes so much creative focus and I was just talking to someone this morning that she said it's, like, actually really hard on your nervous system, right, because you're taking in so much information. You're processing it all. So you have to take those. Like, can you like, I will have my physio appointment this morning. You have to be able to pay for those things, and you have to incorporate those. If you can't well, I can't afford the physio appointment, then that's a problem. Ashton Rodehiser [00:09:37]: Right? So be wary of the language that you use when it comes to, oh, it's fine. Oh, it's enough. I'm like, but is Val Selby [00:09:47]: Yep. Oh, no. I love it. Absolutely. Because COVID taught me that yes, I was having enough because I was scheduling out the stuff, but then scheduling out vacations and got in the habit of not scheduling vacations and then not saving up for the vacations because I didn't need to. Right? Ashton Rodehiser [00:10:05]: I need to take my own advice here, like, don't say that I am not someone to look at. Like, don't look at my schedule, or you'll be like, what is she saying? She doesn't I need to take my own advice for this. Val Selby [00:10:16]: Yep. Which is usually when all of this pops up and then the conversation happens, and then it's like, okay. I'm gonna go and do that right now. Ashton Rodehiser [00:10:24]: But, like, for me, I know client work wise, December's always quiet. Right? December's a quiet month, and I'm like, that's okay. I planned my year knowing December's gonna be quiet on the client front, and it's fine. And I just block off a few weeks. I can do whatever I want. I can work on a side thing that I've been wanting to do for a while. I could do nothing. Ashton Rodehiser [00:10:46]: Right? I can do whatever I want for a few weeks in December, but I know I have that flexibility, and I look forward to that. By the end of the year, like, I need, like, a brain break. Val Selby [00:10:55]: Oh, for sure. Ashton Rodehiser [00:10:56]: Podcast, right? Val Selby [00:10:58]: For sure. Yeah. I've been looking at for years, I always took the last 2 weeks of the year, and I didn't have it scheduled out. I would do some brainstorming if I felt like it, you know, a little bit of mapping out what it would look like, but nothing super structured for years, and then I don't know when I stopped doing it. But I just kept doing the whole thing until the end of the year, and all of a sudden, I was like, okay, when was recharge and get excited about 2024. What is that supposed to happen instead of I just emailed my masterminds, and it's feeling a little bit of Groundhog's Day. So that's why I know this conversation is happening. Ashton Rodehiser [00:11:38]: Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Val Selby [00:11:40]: So I really wanna dig into what it is that you are doing with your creativity and your art? Because when I pulled up your website, so you've got Sketchnote School, which Ashton Rodehiser [00:11:52]: Yeah. Val Selby [00:11:53]: I have already gotten on your list today. Got on your list today for that. And and then you have Mind's Eye Creative. And that looks like your services that you offer. So what are people using these services for? And I know you guys this is kinda hard without me pulling up a picture, but your graphics are amazing. I love it Ashton Rodehiser [00:12:14]: Thank you. Yeah. So, usually, like, what I like to say to people is, have you ever been in a meeting and it's been really boring? Val Selby [00:12:22]: Yeah. All but that's exactly as I was looking at your pictures going, oh, that would be such a better conference. Ashton Rodehiser [00:12:28]: Yeah. So conferences, organizations, you know, anything from a teeny tiny nonprofit all the way up to, like, Fortune 500 company, go into meetings, go into strategic planning, go into conferences, whatever I'm hearing, whether I'm hearing a presentation, whether I'm hearing a conversation, however that looks individual, depending on the client, I visualize that information. Right? So if it's an hour long keynote presentation, I'm there for that hour. I'm live drawing it when they're done. I'm done pretty much. So it's a very clear snapshot in time of the key messages, the key ideas, the funny little things that that speaker said, or if it's a day long meeting or a multi a day or whatever it is and you're trying to get to some decision as a team or what have you, I'm there to illustrate all of the voices and making sure that everybody feels like a valued member. They're there. They're feeling heard, valued. Ashton Rodehiser [00:13:23]: It was a good use of their time. Right? And because most people think in pictures, right, a picture's worth a thousand words, right, it resonates with the majority of people in the room from a visual perspective. And then when you add in the human connection piece, like, everyone keeps asking me about AI AI, and I'm like, you cannot remove the human connection. That's what people are going to value more and more, and I feel like I'm primed in a great place, actually, to be able to help people have that human experience and that connection. And I really care about working with people who care about not just the people in the room, but the participants learning their engagement, the accessibility of information, because nothing is worse. Ashton Rodehiser [00:14:10]: You leave this 2-day strategic planning or you leave this 3-day conference, you don't remember anything, and that drives me absolutely insane. So you have these visual snapshots that you can look at very quickly and go, right, he said that. They said that. Okay. Because from a speaker's perspective, for conference, for example, I would hope, as a speaker, you care about the learning of the attendees and you want them to take all your wisdom and actually apply it. You cannot apply it if you don't remember it. Val Selby [00:14:44]: Yep. Ashton Rodehiser [00:14:45]: Right? So I find myself in really interesting and unique spaces and places and any industry, really, and I get to kinda just soak it all in for a couple of days or a few hours or whatever it is. And then on the flip side, I'm starting to teach people how to do this for their own learning, and that's what sketch note school is all about because sketch note is a more popularized on how to draw your own notes. So if you go to this conference and I'm not there, then you can draw your own thinking and trying to explain to people that drawing isn't something always to be admired. It's something drawing can be an active tool to help you think and learn. Right? And you do not have to be an artist. You don't even have to draw. Like, I can teach you draw the drawing skills in, like, 15 minutes. Ashton Rodehiser [00:15:32]: You know? It's not complicated. But a lot of people have this, like, really weird relationship with creativity. Right? So I'm also feeling like I'm trying to peel that back for people of, like, yes, you are creative. You probably just had a bad experience at some point in your life that told you you weren't, all of us are. Whether we draw or we're good storytellers or we're funny or whatever it is, we're all creative our own way. Ashton Rodehiser [00:15:59]: Just tapping into that. And I like doing it in this space. Val Selby [00:16:04]: Right. And especially us entrepreneurs. I mean, even people who say that they're so analytical, I was like, well, as an entrepreneur, you're still creative because you're constantly creating things. You don't get to run away from it. No wonder why you need the downtime. If you are doing this live and pulling in all of that energy, oh my gosh. That must be draining. Ashton Rodehiser [00:16:27]: It is very exhausting. Yeah. It's, mental than physical. Like because usually when I'm in person, I'm literally doing with papers and markers, like, gigantic illustrations. And then I still do this in person for digital as well, but a lot of times, I do hybrid meetings and things, and I'm doing it on a screen. Right? And I'm drawing it all out live on a screen. Ashton Rodehiser [00:16:49]: Yeah, there our physical elements to it, but it is more of the mental capacity. Like, I feel bad for people who try to talk to me at the end of a conference, and I'm just like, duh duh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. I'm sorry. I can't even put two sentences togethere to talk to you. They're like, do you have a business card? I'm like, yeah. I don't even know where they are. I don't even know. Val Selby [00:17:08]: Like I said, you guys, this is really a tough one not be able to show you on the audio, of course. But if you go and pull up her site, go to her profile, I believe. I'm scrolling through it right now. Portfolio. Go to her portfolio. You'll see exactly what we're talking about. She is taking, for lack of anything else, the minutes For the meeting and turning them into something absolutely gorgeous and actionable and, you know, arrows and fun looking stuff instead of just a word graph. Ashton Rodehiser [00:17:47]: Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, because a lot of this thing in pictures to me, of course, it's like, at this point, I'm it's like a no brainer. Like, why wouldn't you have someone visualizing the information? But the example I give is, you know, YouTube is the 2nd largest search engine in the world for a reason because people would rather see what's the, what's up. They wanna see someone make a recipe or show them how to do something. But if you try to explain it in words or in writing, you know, some people prefer that. But even if they do, a lot of people still appreciate a visual. Ashton Rodehiser [00:18:19]: If it even if they don't consider it one of their primary preferences for learning, a lot of people still resonate with a visual. Right? That's why, like, all social media, all it is is visuals, man. Like, all of it. It's all isuals. Like, what are we doing? We're scrolling reels on Instagram because we wanna see stuff. Right? You know, there's still always gonna be a beautiful space for written content, and I love a good book in my hand and I wanna read it. Ashton Rodehiser [00:18:47]: But we need just to be able to give other avenues for learning and engagement. And, like, you know, one thing I tend to talk with a lot of clients about lately is, like, around the accessibility of information. And more organizations, thankfully, are caring about the diverse learning styles of people in the room, including people who have, like, ADHD or some sort of, like, processing issues or whatever. Physically, they can't sit there for that long for whatever reason, and we want everybody to have access to the information. Right? But, like, saying, oh, well, you can just watch the presentation later on a Zoom, like, 5 months when we put it on YouTube. Ashton Rodehiser [00:19:30]: Like, that's not good enough, in my opinion, and it's singling people out by not offering other ways for someone to digest content from that speaker. Val Selby [00:19:43]: Mhmm. Ashton Rodehiser [00:19:43]: And a slide deck is not gonna do it. Yeah. That is a cop out in my opinion. Val Selby [00:19:48]: Yeah. Ashton Rodehiser [00:19:49]: Offering a slide deck to your attendees after is lazy. Because if the speakers do slide decks well, it shouldn't tell you the whole story. Val Selby [00:19:59]: Right. Exactly. Ashton Rodehiser [00:20:01]: It's supposed to accompany it. Val Selby [00:20:03]: Yes. Ashton Rodehiser [00:20:04]: It shouldn't just be walls of text. And even if it is, it's still not gonna tell you- Val Selby [00:20:09]: Yeah. Ashton Rodehiser [00:20:09]: What the speaker said. Right? It's just supposed to be a supporting document. Val Selby [00:20:14]: Mhmm. Ashton Rodehiser [00:20:14]: Right? So, Yeah. Anyways, you got me on a podium today. Ashton Rodehiser [00:20:21]: I'm doing all, saying all the things. Val Selby [00:20:25]: There's nothing worse than somebody just standing up there and just reading their own slide deck. You're like, yeah. Breathe. Breathe and go off. Go off on a tangent, please. Ashton Rodehiser [00:20:35]: I I can't remember. I I haven't updated my numbers this year, but last year, I captured over 600 presentations. Val Selby [00:20:42]: Oh my gosh. Ashton Rodehiser [00:20:44]: Right? So that's a lot of drawing, and that's a lot of lip listening. Right? I feel like at this I'm more of the professional listener than anything. You just happen to get a nice graphic out of it, and I have had my fair share of sitting through some pretty horrific presentations. I feel like I could start a whole new business, just teaching people how to present information. Val Selby [00:21:09]: Yeah. Well, that's how it starts. You're there, and you're getting what's working, and you're watching the audience, line, you're firsthand watching the audience up there. Yep. Ashton Rodehiser [00:21:19]: And that I'm always keeping them in mind. What do I think they need to take from this? Who are, what are they, you know, if I know it's a room full of newbies, but the person on the stage is, like, saying really advanced stuff, I'm trying to, like, hold space as a newbie or what have you. Right? It's yeah. And I don't know what anyone's gonna say before they're gonna say it. Like, I'm listening in the same space that they are, so I'm trying to hold that learning in the same space. Right? Val Selby [00:21:47]: Right. Yeah. You would be gold if a speaker took you on tour with them for what you would teach them and how you would help them. That's what I figured. Ashton Rodehiser [00:21:59]: I think, like, you know, I do have a couple of speakers because I work, like, a lot in very specific tech spaces that I've captured a couple times. And there's this one guy, specifically, that he actually comes to me after, and he'll say, hey, what did you hear? Why did you capture what you captured? And he uses it as a reflection tool, which I think is so cool because he obviously cares about the audience too, which, you know, I hope speakers do, but you can tell that a lot of them don't. It's just more of an ego trip. And he wants to make sure that he communicated the information well and being able to digest that with him for a few minutes or talk about it or even him just reflect on it, he's like, if she didn't get something, then that I wanted to make sure that everybody understood. Did I not emphasis in it enough? Did I not make it clear enough? So, I think it's a beautiful way for them to have this nice capture of their information and a lot of events will give us gifts, or they'll print them and mail them or whatever it is, which is beautiful way to kind of, like, show your appreciation, but then also this really cool how people use them after events and and things as well. And it's cool that it has the in the moment engagement, but then also the longevity after, which is really cool. Yeah. Val Selby [00:23:15]: Yeah. You've got me wanting to go to Amazon, like, immediately and go get one of the easel the big draw, draw paper. To see just to see what in the world can I even come up with? Ashton Rodehiser [00:23:28]: Big paper. Big paper is the best. Go to a print shop. Go to a print shop, get a big roll of paper. I had to get some more, and they're a 150. They're 3 and a half feet wide by and they're a 150 feet long. I got 4 rolls to come. Ashton Rodehiser [00:23:43]: They're great, and, like, nothing is precious. Right? You wanna play around? Nothing is precious. You know, I mean, you have to show it to anybody if you don't want to. Val Selby [00:23:51]: Right. Ashton Rodehiser [00:23:52]: On a wall, sticky notes are your best friend, especially in your if you're in this mode right now and you're thinking 2024. Throw a piece of paper on the wall and grab a bunch of sticky notes, write a bunch of stuff down, stick them up there, and then you can move them around. And then you could always, like, okay, I'm actually, like, happy with this the way I wanna do this. Then you could, like, write it and doodle or do whatever you want, make it permanent. Like, my vision board are like sticky notes because I wanna be able to swap them out. Like, oh, I wanna challenge myself on something. Right? Whereas sometimes the permanentness of it can be a little, scary to people. Ashton Rodehiser [00:24:30]: I'm like, that's just, like, use paper and put a sticker on, like, something sticky on the back of it and moving around. Use a sticky note or do whatever you want. Right? And, like, use your, like, materials that you have in a cupboard that you never use because they're of your nice ones. Like, treat yourself. Use your nice stuff. You know? Ashton Rodehiser [00:24:48]: When else are you gonna use it? Use that journal or those that beautiful pack of sticky notes that you haven't used yet because you're like, oh, but I wanna save them. No. Just use them. Val Selby [00:25:02]: What are you saving them for? To take them with you? Use the good stuff. Use the good ends. Use everything. So how in the world did you get started doing this? Ashton Rodehiser [00:25:15]: Yeah. So I learned that it was a thing as a facilitator. So I started working right out, I just took early childhood education. I started working at a nonprofit. And a few years into there, I moved into a facilitation role. And I really fell in love with community development and facilitation and how to help groups of people navigate their own wisdom to come to whatever it is they're trying to get to. And I love facilitation because it's about group process. It's not about you being the expert. Ashton Rodehiser [00:25:48]: It's about knowing how to ask good questions and, honestly, to be that professional listener, right, and help them get to whatever goal they're trying to achieve. Right? So after doing that for a little while, I left that. I wanted to move back to my home, buy a house, get married, do all those things, and I started seeking out opportunities to do facilitation. I couldn't figure out at the time how to do it professionally, so I was volunteering a lot of organizations and nonprofits and things and trying to do what I could just to kinda keep my skill. Develop it. And, a facilitator friend who I met, he told me about a one day graphic facilitation workshop, but I didn't even know what that was at the time. And I went to that workshop, and I was like, this is it. Ashton Rodehiser [00:26:35]: This is, like, my like, I think I always wanted to secretly be an artist, but it was never on the table because of all the things we talked about at the very beginning of this conversation. And I was like, oh. It's always like, it was my artistic side that I've never really were able to explore professionally, and this facilitation, listening, thinking, digesting, reflecting side that I really, really loved. It was this kind of beautiful mashed dinner. Val Selby [00:27:02]: Oh, that's the best when that happens. Ashton Rodehiser [00:27:05]: And that was 10 years ago. Like, it was October of 2013 or something. And, like, because I can remember because my my oldest who now is 10, she was 6 months old at the time, and that's the longest I ever left her alone with someone, so it's very easy for me to remember. But it was a few years of just sort of playing around and figuring it out. And, and then, yeah, in about, like, 2015, 2016, I was like, okay, I'm gonna, like, try to build a business. And then later 2016, early 2017 is when I was like, I'm going all in on this. I need, like, this a go home kinda thing. Val Selby [00:27:41]: Awesome. Awesome. So, listeners, pay attention to the time frame she said and the different things that Ashton was learning along the way that led to figuring out exactly what you wanted to do. I know that's something that I have had issues with it's like, okay, well, I did this. Oh, that didn't work. I did this. Oh, that didn't work. Val Selby [00:28:03]: And it's led me to exactly where I am right now, doing exactly what I want to be doing, if I hadn't if I had all of those fails, air quotes, fails. Ashton Rodehiser [00:28:14]: Yeah. And I think, like, for me too, those first few years, it's like I had a business, but it was, like, secret. So don't do that either. Don't have a business and not tell anybody because I did that, and I was like, why don't I have any clients? Yeah. And I'm like, because I didn't tell anybody I was open for business. Val Selby [00:28:33]: Yeah. Ashton Rodehiser [00:28:33]: You know? And, like, my web, my first website was awful. My first logo was horrible. Like, all of it was awful, But, like, I was something, and I procrastinated the crap out of everything just to, like, avoid telling people I was open for business. Ashton Rodehiser [00:28:47]: Like, I would do all the research. Like, I heard a term recently. It's, like, procrasta learning. Yep. I like, you could put procrasta anything. Anything you can do other than to tell people that you're open for business. But that's, like, the scariest thing to do because you're just opening yourself up for potential ton of rejection, which I got a ton at like, in those first early years where it's, like, rejection city. Ashton Rodehiser [00:29:10]: Right? It's just, like, every day getting rejected And trying like, reading books on rejection to try to get over. Those felt like turmoil of being rejected constantly because I didn't know how to articulate my value enough. Like, I wasn't showing up in spaces enough where people could see it, understand the value, and I had to go through a lot of that. But, certainly, if I would've just told people that they could hire me, that could have been a good start. Val Selby [00:29:36]: It is a good start. It is. Yes. Absolutely. I've been just as guilty of it many, many times. And, well, you know, part of the reason is, well, if nobody really knows, can you really fail? No. Not really. Val Selby [00:29:52]: And fear of success as well is, you know, just the same on the other side of of gosh, well, what if it does take off? Then what? Life changes. It's like, yeah. Ashton Rodehiser [00:30:03]: And it's like you have to run your business. It took me a long time to learn this. You have to run the your business in a way that feels good to you. Because I feel like in the procrasta learning those first few years, I would, like, watch all these business bros about, like, funnels and all this stuff. And I'm like, I have no idea. Like, this doesn't resonate with me. It doesn't feel good. I don't like it. Ashton Rodehiser [00:30:28]: I don't wanna, like, put someone through a funnel that feels icky. Like, I don't like it. And I felt like I had to do some of those things, but then I would never really do them because I didn't like it. Val Selby [00:30:39]: Yep. Ashton Rodehiser [00:30:39]: Right? So it took me quite a long time for me to realize. I'm like, I can run my business in a way that feels good to me, and I'll still get clients. It's fine. Like, it will work itself out even if I don't do all the things, quote, unquote, that some dude on the internet told me I should do in order to be successful. So you, like, seek out, like, listening to this podcast where there's other people, like, doing other things and running their businesses in ways that feel good to them, right, that feel authentic to them, not necessarily feeling like you have to follow all the, like, experts in all the things that they tell you to do. Because I feel like I don't do any of those things, and I still do well. Like, I'm still fine. Val Selby [00:31:27]: Well, there's no one way to do business. And that's the thing. It's like, that worked for that person. You know what? It might work for some of the other people that followed along with them, but it's not going to work for everyone. If there was one way to do it, we'd all be doing it. Ashton Rodehiser [00:31:43]: Exactly. Saying this a lot, like, in my mind and to others recently around, you look for the evidence that it's possible. Right? And that's why it's important for someone like me to come and have a conversation with you because then it shows people that things are possible for them. Because you can do the opposite and say, I'm gonna look for the evidence that it's not going to work for me because I don't wanna do what all those, like, internet bros tell me I need to do. Right? So seek out ways to find people, and it is harder. It is hard where you have to look a little deeper sometimes in the spaces, in the books, in the podcast, and things where people are authentic, and they're running things the way that feel good to them and not getting kinda sucked into hustle culture and all that kind of, like, scene. Right? Because it's so much easier to get sucked into that space, and I think people are starting to get pushed back on that a little bit. Ashton Rodehiser [00:32:42]: So maybe it's a little easier to find it now, but you can look for the evidence and look for the way that you wanna do things from other people who are doing things a little different that feel good to them. And even if you don't wanna do it the way that they're doing it. Like, maybe you don't wanna do it the way that I am, but they're like, well, Ashton's doing it the way that she wants to, so maybe I can do it the way that I want. I'll still be successful. Val Selby [00:33:06]: Yep. Permission to do it the way you really feel like you want to. Ashton Rodehiser [00:33:10]: Yeah. And at the end of the day, what matters, your happiness and your client's happiness, that's all that matters. Right? If your client is happy, they're gonna come back to you. Honestly, the majority of my work this year has just been repeat clients, and I've been happy as a clam because they're awesome, and they're like, they could be my friends. Like, they're great, and that's who I wanna be working with. They have to pass the fun test when I have a call with them. If they don't seem fun and easygoing, I don't wanna work with them. Ashton Rodehiser [00:33:40]: Like, I'm very strict. Val Selby [00:33:41]: Great. It's good. Ashton Rodehiser [00:33:42]: But in the beginning, it's harder to be like that. Val Selby [00:33:46]: Yes. Ashton Rodehiser [00:33:46]: Until you have that confidence and you learn and, oh, maybe you learn the hard way by taking on a client that you shouldn't have said yes but you did, and now you're regretting it. Like, does that. Right? But being a little bit more strict in, like, who you wanna work with, then you'll have a good time. And you can do it in a way that feels good for you. And it's funny because I'm on the opposite end now. Whereas before, I would get rejected all the time, and it hurt like hell was awful. And now I'm on the other side where I literally just tell people on a call. Ashton Rodehiser [00:34:20]: I'm like, hey. If you're fun, I only work with fun people. Val Selby [00:34:23]: Right? Ashton Rodehiser [00:34:24]: And they're like, I think I'm fun. I think I think we're fun. And I'm like, well, you better be because I'm not gonna work with you if you're not fun. Ashton Rodehiser [00:34:32]: And then they're trying to sell me to work with them. Right? But that it's just that's confidence over time and Val Selby [00:34:39]: Yeah. Ashton Rodehiser [00:34:39]: And positive reinforcement and positive work experiences over time can get you to that point of I never thought I'd ever be at this point where I'd be, like, so chill on a sales call where, you know, I'm just like, well, if you're not fun, like, we're not gonna do this. Whereas before, I had such desperate energy and was awful. Like, I would literally have to take my Fitbit off because my heart rate would spike, and it would think I'm working out when I wasn't. I was just sitting there, still as a board, not working out. Val Selby [00:35:11]: You're getting the notice. Okay. We we need yoga right now. Yeah. Chill, totally get it. It's an amazing thing. And especially because you are doing what you want, and you value it. You understand the value of it. Val Selby [00:35:27]: So, yeah, it's just a whole new ballgame when you get to that level, and it's just awesome. Ashton Rodehiser [00:35:32]: It is a special place to get to, but it just takes time and energy, unfortunately. And I do feel more confident these days because I can say I've been doing this for 10 years. Like, 10 years is a long time to be doing something. You know? When I was doing, like, for 5 years, it's like, oh, it's only been doing it for 5. You know? It doesn't feel as impressive, but there is a sometimes, like, it is a bit of a long game, unfortunately, and we have like, we are in a instant gratification world, and we feel like if we should have all the success we want, and then we see a reel on Instagram. It's like, I made a million dollar in 2 months. I opened my business 2 months ago, and I made a million dollars, and then you feel like garbage. Val Selby [00:36:11]: Yep. Ashton Rodehiser [00:36:12]: Those stories and stuff, they just feed the the negative Val Selby [00:36:17]: Yes. Ashton Rodehiser [00:36:17]: Parts of us that believe that we can't do it. Right? Val Selby [00:36:21]: Mmm. Mmm. And one thing you said is looking for the people that are doing things similar to you not to you, but in a way that you want and finding them. And I just wanna let everybody know that when you start doing that, while it does take some time usually to find those people, once you're doing it, you'll start noticing more of the positive versus the negative. And the beautiful thing is I don't know about you for social media, but I started getting rid of all the negative. Because I was as, like, as soon as something would pop up yeah. As soon as it would pop up, I'm like, oh, hell no. You gotta go. You know? Like, I don't need that. Val Selby [00:36:57]: I don't need that. Ashton Rodehiser [00:36:58]: Honestly, like, make friends with someone who is your competition. Ashton Rodehiser [00:37:02]: Make friends with your competition because there really is no such thing. Because, like, from my line of work, if someone sees someone in Advent live illustrating, they're gonna hire them, or they're gonna hire someone else. Val Selby [00:37:15]: Yep. Ashton Rodehiser [00:37:15]: Right? We don't need to poach clients for people. Like, there's enough to go around. But if you make friends with people who might be considered your competition, you get to you know, like, I have a couple people, like, on a Facebook message or thread, and we just, like every time we're going through something that's not so fun, we just mess it. And we just need to, like, get it out for people who understand. Because we know all the nuances and weird little things, what it's like to be a graphic facilitator, live illustrator, sketchnote, or whatever you wanna call it. Like, there's always funny little nuances, and people who aren't in the industry don't understand. Ashton Rodehiser [00:37:52]: Like, you could complain to your husband or your friend, but they don't get it. Right? And it could be a potential source of income. I didn't make friends with people for the thought that they would eventually refer me to something, but I get referrals like, oh, I can't do this job. I'm already booked. Are you available? I'd love to connect the client with you. I have, like, referral agreements with other people that if I send them stuff, they send me stuff. That in itself could be joint associations and being parts of places where it may be considered competition. Ashton Rodehiser [00:38:27]: Right? Like, I had a conversation with a woman this morning who lives in my area, and there's so few of us here who do it in my area. And she's like, I don't even know you existed, and I passed on jobs recently because I didn't know you existed, but I could have been like, no, I don't wanna talk to her because she's my competition. And then you can get a sense how people love to work and what their values are like and if you want to be associated with them or whatever. Because, also, like, if you might get to a point where you need to pass on something, but you know this other person would be a great fit, then you have someone to refer. Ashton Rodehiser [00:39:03]: Right? Because you have to have an abundance mindset around it. Like, you're gonna do yourself graves of service if you're just feeling like you can't share anything. Yeah. You know, like, the scarcity versus the abundance Val Selby [00:39:17]: Yeah. Ashton Rodehiser [00:39:17]: Kinda vibe. Right? Val Selby [00:39:18]: Yep. I, yeah, I hear you. I'm friends with a ton of people that run events, and most people, they're just like, oh gosh. Why aren't you worried? You know? It's like, No. No. Because we all talk. Yes. Work with this person. Val Selby [00:39:30]: Don't work with this person. You know? Ashton Rodehiser [00:39:32]: Yeah. And I don't think clients understand it. Like, my husband, he runs a landscape company, and he didn't have someone pay him or she was threatening not to pay him. And he saw people working at that property. So we just stopped by, and he said, hey, do you love getting paid? If you do, I would stop doing this job right now because she didn't pay me. Val Selby [00:39:52]: Yeah. Ashton Rodehiser [00:39:53]: And the next day, he was paid. He got a thing in his tank. Val Selby [00:39:55]: Exactly. Ashton Rodehiser [00:39:58]: Right? It's like, I don't think they realize if they treat someone crappy, I don't think they realize that some people are very interconnected. Val Selby [00:40:06]: Yes. Ashton Rodehiser [00:40:07]: Right? Val Selby [00:40:08]: Yep. Ashton Rodehiser [00:40:08]: And then they'll spread the word. Like, don't work with this person because they'll take advantage of you or they won't agree to the terms and conditions, and then they'll screw you. Like, whatever. Val Selby [00:40:18]: Yep. Yeah. Yep. Exactly. Ashton Rodehiser [00:40:21]: You want like, you also wanna be in those spaces talking to people in your industry for that reason too. Like, obviously, hopefully, that doesn't happen a lot. Feel like it does come up. Val Selby [00:40:31]: It does come up. Thankfully, more often, it's more of, okay, well, I tried this, and this didn't work. You know? You tried this, and that didn't work. So what is working? To to bounce it off like you said. To have you know, here was a good day. Here was a bad day. Val Selby [00:40:45]: You know, bounce it off with somebody that knows what you're doing. Ashton Rodehiser [00:40:48]: Someone who understands the nuance of your industry, and you're like, oh, the vendors did this, and they'll be like, oh, vendors. You know? Val Selby [00:40:55]: Right? Exactly. Yep. Get it out and let it go. Ashton Rodehiser [00:41:00]: Exactly. Because sometimes you just need to be able to vent about things, but it has to be with people who really understand. Val Selby [00:41:06]: Yep. Ashton Rodehiser [00:41:07]: Really helpful with that. Hopefully, that doesn't have a lot. Hopefully, it's sharing wins, which is really important too. Val Selby [00:41:12]: Yes. Absolutely. Oh my gosh. Well, thank you so much, Ashton, for all of this. Is there anything you'd like to leave the listeners with? You've given them great information already. Ashton Rodehiser [00:41:23]: It was great. Yeah. Thank you all for coming to my TED Talk. Lot of things to say today. You got me in that mood. You got me in that mood. You know, I you already shared the websites. I think that's a great place. Ashton Rodehiser [00:41:35]: I've been posting more on Instagram lately, which is ashtonmindseye. So, yeah, I kind of hang out on many different spaces for different things, and I'm kind of in a bit of more of the education space lately. We're trying to teach people how to do sketchnoting, and I have my book, The Beginner's Guide to Sketchnoting, so if that sounds like, oh, maybe I wanna try drawing my notes or, oh, you have a kid in school or whatever. He wants to give it a try. I'm teaching my 10 year old now. She's kinda got that good age of of learning, so it's always a good time. So you can find the book on the websites and, Amazon and all that good stuff. Val Selby [00:42:12]: Yeah. I'm I'm interested and giving it a try just for some upcoming workshops, you know, just, like, run it through myself and go, hey, how how would this look? I don't know. Let's see. And make make fun of myself while I do it as I'm learning to get better at it because it's not gonna be perfect to begin with. But, yes, I will have everything on here. You guys, if you wanna make your meetings both in person or online, more interesting and more digestible as we were talking about definitely going and check out hiring or learning how to do it from Ashton. Val Selby [00:42:48]: And thanks again for being here, Ashton. I appreciate you. Ashton Rodehiser [00:42:51]: Yeah. Thanks so much for having me. Had such a good time.