Val Selby [00:00:06]:

Hey, this is Val Selby and after over 20 years online, I can track where my mindset has blocked me. If procrastination, impostor syndrome and a lack of focus have been blocking your biz, then Val Full Volume is here to help you see choices you are making. Get ready to use your expertise to collaborate like a pro as you create the business of your dreams. Now is the time to make changes and live your best life. Let's get to it!  

Val Selby [00:00:44]:
Hello, everyone. I am so happy to be bringing a guest on for I - I don't know. I'd have to look back. I think this is the first guest of 2024. I don't know the problem with recording ahead of time, right? I know this is the first recording with a guest in 2024, so, yay us. So I am really excited because this is something that we're gonna have a conversation, I'm sure, today about burnout. And this is something that right now, I'm having a yes and a no from so many of my clients of oh my gosh, I'm hitting it hard, and it was awesome. And here we come into the new year, and I have these other ones that are like, oh my god, 2023 just about destroyed me.

Val Selby [00:01:16]:
So I'm looking forward to this conversation today, and I wanna thank you, Alicia Johnson, for being here and bringing your expertise into this.

Alicia Johnson [00:01:26]:
Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to talk.

Val Selby [00:01:29]:
Yeah. So if you don't mind, would you tell the listeners about yourself, please?

Alicia Johnson [00:01:34]:
Yeah. So I'm a licensed therapist based out in Michigan. I'm also a burnout coach of where I help other therapists and entrepreneurs find a really meaningful work-life balance. And then as of this year, 2024, I'm a podcaster. So really been on this journey of finding things that align with my interests and my values to prevent burnout from happening again.

Val Selby [00:01:57]:
Yeah. And, yeah, I I love it. I think you're gonna have so much fun doing the podcast and getting so much more words out there. So before we even start, I have to ask because you're in Michigan, are you Team Blue or are you Team Spartan?

Alicia Johnson [00:02:12]:
Team Blue.

Val Selby [00:02:13]:
Oh, gosh.

Alicia Johnson [00:02:17]:
Stayed up way too late last night, but it was so worth it.

Val Selby [00:02:22]:
So we're reco - we're recording it. It happened last night, everyone. And, of course, I'm in the Seattle area, so we're in second place. The beautiful thing is that all of my friends that are from Michigan, I celebrate with you because that was a really good win. And my house was totally hoping that it would be Michigan U-Dub. So, yay, you guys. Congratulations. Damn it.

Alicia Johnson [00:02:43]:
They're joining the big ten next year, so I'm sure there'll be lots of rematch.

Val Selby [00:02:47]:
Right. Exactly. Yep. So on from that squirrel. Yeah. Had to go there. Yeah. Had to give my congratulations.

Val Selby [00:02:55]:
But oh my gosh. I totally lost my train of thought. It happens. So how did you get started out in the burnout niche, the coaching for the burnout?

Alicia Johnson [00:03:05]:
Yeah. Well, my coaching came later, so I definitely started out as my niche in my therapy realm. And, like, a lot of therapists and, like, researchers and all that is, like, the research is me search. Search, and I feel like that can be relatable to a lot of therapists and coaches who find out their niches, we have lived experience. And so I can really relate to being burnt out and stuck in a job and coming home and not enjoying the things that I used to do and just kinda like going through the motions and not being a really on active participant in my life, and I made a lot of changes and did a lot of exploration. And I was like, oh, well, like, I know I'm not the only person going through this. And it's not a diagnosable thing in the DSM at the time. That was around when COVID was happening.

Alicia Johnson [00:03:50]:
And so, like, we need to have more of these conversations and really tackle this hustle culture and mentality, and it just really fit with my modalities, my personality, and then my lived experiences. And then, of course, through my own just journey and kind of adding coaching, I was like, I wanna help other therapists and other helpers who I see this so prevalent in this field.

Val Selby [00:04:13]:
For sure. Yeah. I mean, my husband's a firefighter, so, of course, we've got the nurses and the caregivers and just everybody in that whole field. It takes a toll on you because, I mean, even if you've got your boundaries up, you're still taking on part of what your clients are going through.

Alicia Johnson [00:04:33]:
Oh, yeah. And we give so much of ourselves in those of helping roles, those first responder roles where it's not as easy to just, like, check it out the door always. Like, we're humans first, I always say. And so, like, it's, yeah, we can have a great support system. We can have good coping tools. We can have boundaries, and we're still gonna be impacted sometimes.

Val Selby [00:04:54]:
Definitely. And especially because that's why you got into it to begin with. Is, like, your heart is caring. It's the short part. 

Alicia Johnson [00:05:07]:
Yeah. I would say everything has pros and cons.

Val Selby [00:05:09]:
Yes. For sure. Oh, I had a thought. Good grief. What is up with my brain today? Yeah. I had a thought. Oh, here was my thought. And I'm not usually so scattered, but here I am.

Val Selby [00:05:18]:
I loved that you were talking about the fact because you are a licensed therapist, and we're always talking about expertise in the entrepreneur space and how you bring it in, and I love and this is probably my own thing, I love the fact that you are saying that just like everybody else in the world, you are finding your experiences, and that's what you're using in your practice, per se.

Alicia Johnson [00:05:47]:
Yeah. And I think it's becoming more common, I think, in the entrepreneurial world to kind of, like, be more of ourselves, and that's how we're really connecting with people. Whereas, I feel like maybe 20-ish plus years ago, it was like, nope, you have to just be like this blank slate on not show any of your personality and just do what the consumers want, and it's very much more about the relationships, I feel like. And we do that by being ourselves. And we're like, I'm not gonna make all my coaching sessions or therapy sessions about me, but they're connecting with me. They're choosing me.

Val Selby [00:06:17]:
Mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah, and the fact that you might have had a similar experience, that's part of the connection.

Alicia Johnson [00:06:23]:
Oh, yeah. It helps people feel like they're not alone because so many times when we're in those really dark on places, we feel really isolated and that we're doing something wrong or that we have all this shame and guilt and just to be like, hey, it's different experiences, but I've been there. That can just be enough for people to let their guards down and be like, oh, I'm not crazy. And I don't use that word, but that's what our voices are telling us in our heads.

Val Selby [00:06:45]:
Yeah. Yeah. Or that whole, I'm the only one going through this. Why does everybody else have it together and I don't?

Alicia Johnson [00:06:50]:
Yes.

Val Selby [00:06:52]:
Which everyone that's, like, every other day for me. So you know what I mean? It's like-

Alicia Johnson [00:06:57]:
No one has it together. Let's be honest.

Val Selby [00:06:59]:
No. No. It's like one day, it's, like, super high one day and, actually, that's the funny thing. I've been very open on the fact that I finally acknowledge that I have anxiety issues, and that's probably why I'm a little squirrely today as I'm, like, in between meds. So.

Alicia Johnson [00:07:12]:
Mhmm. That'll do it.

Val Selby [00:07:16]:
So I've been open about that because I've been through the burnout. I get it. And I talk to my clients and my audience, and I'm like, on you know what? It's probably gonna come around again. It just is. We go through cycles. So how do you notice when burnout's coming around?

Alicia Johnson [00:07:34]:
That's been a huge part of my burnout prevention. That's what I always recommend other people too is just those early warning signs. And so, for me, I've done a lot of self reflection, and I continue to do it because as we change and adapt, sometimes our burnout symptoms can also change and adapt. But my biggest one is irritability. Like, if I start getting kinda, like, snappy, like, I'm a fairly chill person, like, go with the flow. So if I'm starting to getting snappy, on it's like, oh, like, who are you? And if I have a snack and that's still not helping anything, then I'm like, oh, what's going on? And when I just, like, I'm so tired after a days of work repeatedly. So we all have a hard day at work once and all. Sometimes I always say that we have to really lean into work sometimes.

Alicia Johnson [00:08:15]:
But if it's like, every day of the week, I'm just laying on my couch and I can't do anything. I can't go for a walk. I can't really, like, have a conversation. I'm like, oh, maybe something's going on.

Val Selby [00:08:29]:
Right? Right? Yeah. The snappy, that's a flag for my husband. When I noticed because he's the big old teddy bear. And I noticed when he's cranky, I would say, coming home from work, and all he's doing is complaining about this and that and this and that. I was like, oh, hey, mister.

Alicia Johnson [00:08:47]:
Yep. And that was me at my old job. So I thankfully now, like, run my businesses. So my boss, it's myself, and I can kind of handle that. But I know that was my big sign when I worked at an agency is I would come home and I would spend probably the first hour with my partner on just complaining about work. And I'm like, I'm already spending 8 plus hours a day at this place. I don't wanna spend my limited time with my partner complaining about this place, and so that was a huge sign for me when I was in the agency setting.

Val Selby [00:09:16]:
Yeah. Yeah. And you know what? I do notice on that in myself. I don't think I really put it towards, like, burnout, but I know for me that when I recognize that I'm doing that, when I get tired of hearing myself complaining is when I make changes. That's like that last flag. 

Alicia Johnson [00:09:37]:
Yeah. Like a little bit of venting's okay once in a while, but really, maybe I need to do something about that.

Val Selby [00:09:41]:
Right. Exactly. Because we're the only ones that can make that change.

Alicia Johnson [00:09:45]:
Yeah. Again, pros and cons.

Val Selby [00:09:47]:
Yes. Exactly. So what do you recommend as a start I mean, there's obviously, you have to recognize it first.

Alicia Johnson [00:09:56]:
Mhmm.

Val Selby [00:09:57]:
Is there a way to start recognizing a little bit more?

Alicia Johnson [00:10:03]:
I always just recommend just, like, spending a couple minutes with yourself a day. I think that's a big thing with my lens of burnout prevention and treatment is we don't all have the luxury of a ton of time, a ton of energy to do these really big things. So if you're listening and you're like, okay, yeah, like, this sounds great, but, like, when am I gonna do this? If when you're brushing your teeth at night, just kind of doing a quick check-in, doing a body scan, seeing if there's any tension in your shoulders or your jaw, just reflecting on 1 to 2 things that went well or went stressful that day, and that's enough. I'm taking the expectation of, okay, well, just because I'm aware of this, now I have to tackle this. Like, you can we can slow the process down. We can just start noticing our body, our thoughts, our dread, any worries.

Alicia Johnson [00:10:50]:
If we're already thinking about work the next day, that can be a sign. And then eventually, whenever you have maybe enough information of a pattern and then you start getting some energy back, then you can work on more of the action phases.

Val Selby [00:11:04]:
Yeah. Definitely. Oh, the energy. That's such a big one. I remember I went through major burnout at the end of 2020. Like-

Alicia Johnson [00:11:11]:
Mhmm.

Val Selby [00:11:12]:
I was 4 seconds from just, like, not coming back online ever again kinda thing. And I really had to sit down and pay attention. Okay, well, If I'm ready to just walk away from everything without even a goodbye, what can I get rid of?

Alicia Johnson [00:11:27]:
Mhmm.

Val Selby [00:11:28]:
Because as of right now, tomorrow, none of this is gonna get done anyway. So, what can I drop? And that really helped me get out because I I mean, 2020, we were all crazy going through 2020 trying to figure it out, and I'd burnt myself out because I was working 7 days a week because there was nothing else to do.

Alicia Johnson [00:11:48]:
And that can be a hard thing too. It's because, like, a a lot of us love what we do. We kinda talked about this earlier. It's why we get into this thing. And so sometimes it doesn't always feel like work, but then it kinda, like, sneaks up on us. And it can kinda come out of nowhere. And then we start feeling bad because it's like, wait, I'm supposed to love what I do. Why am I feeling this way? And it's like, because we're human, and we have other parts of ourselves besides our job or our roles.

Val Selby [00:12:12]:
Yeah. And I hadn't realized that I had no boundaries with myself. Like I said earlier, the only one that could make all the changes was myself. Well, I was the one that was doing this 7 days a week and on all of that so I had to sit down and put my own boundaries in place and talk to my husband about it so that he would help me stick my boundaries. I needed that accountability. 

Val Selby [00:12:32]:
Hey. The office store is shut. You're not going in there. It's Saturday.

Alicia Johnson [00:12:37]:
I love it, though. I I also love that, like so that's something that I do with a lot of my clients. Because a lot of burnout, we don't have control over everything. Especially if we're working for someone or in an agency, there's a lot of, like, of systemic things that, like, we feel helpless, we feel out of control, and there's some truth to some of those things. So I encourage people, well, what do we have control over? And it sounds like for you in that example, it was able to be like, hey, I can close this door on a Saturday, and I don't have to work. And it sounds like that was really, like, a changing point in that experience.

Val Selby [00:13:08]:
Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. And and my I had to. Kinda like on I had to okay, this is when we're gonna be done with work for the night. And we're not gonna check our emails or our phone or, you know, any of that.

Alicia Johnson [00:13:21]:
Exactly.

Val Selby [00:13:23]:
It was amazing how something so I don't wanna say super simple, like you said, I had complete control over and it made a on huge difference.

Alicia Johnson [00:13:32]:
Right. I often say, like, those small, I've said on if small would be the right word either, but it's okay to start with small things. And then we feel empowered. That can lead to momentum. We can get some of our energy back, and then we can always tackle larger things if we need to, but small things are still really powerful.

Val Selby [00:13:51]:
Well, in another thing you had mentioned earlier was one thing for you that you notice is as you're not doing other things. And that is so big for a lot of us at work from home. So big because we're just - we're done. You know, we're just, like, tired, mentally spent. Some of us, this was our hobbies that we turned into business.

Val Selby [00:14:15]:
And then it leads to what now? I don't have a hobby because now it's what I do for work. So finding other outlets, and how in the world do I even do that anymore. I mean, as you can tell, I'm there. I do not really have any other hobbies at this time. It's just not I know it's not healthy. 

Alicia Johnson [00:14:33]:
Well, I feel like it's kind of like that hustle culture too where, like, I think we feel bad and guilty for, like, just doing things for playfulness or of fun, and so it's like, no, I need to be productive. I need to contribute to things. I need to make money. I need to do all these things. And it's like, I can also just sit and, like, do really bad crochet. Like, I don't need to, like, start an Etsy shop. I don't need to, like, be perfect at this.

Alicia Johnson [00:14:57]:
I can just be.

Val Selby [00:14:59]:
Oh my gosh. I just realized that, yes, that's, like, what flows through my head. Because it's like, okay, if I make an afghan, what and where am I gonna sell it? Because everybody doesn't need 1200 afghans. And my - yeah. My brain immediately goes there, so that's not very calming.

Alicia Johnson [00:15:15]:
No. Because yeah. And, again, there's, like, time and places where, like, hey, you can make a side hustle out of it. That's cool. But we also don't need to, and we can just be and enjoy the process. And if it leads to, like, hey, this is actually really joyful and really comes easy to me, and I could do something with this, that's cool, but let's, like, slow the process down and just be silly and play for a little bit.

Val Selby [00:15:37]:
And enjoy. Yeah. It's definitely the enjoy instead of making everything into a money making. Right. Yeah. I'm gonna have to sit and play with this one in my head.

Alicia Johnson [00:15:49]:
Oh, it was a journey for me. So I all my things easier said than done. Again, speaking from lived experience, I had a crochet kit that I've had for, like, 2 Christmases sitting in, like, baskets. I'm like, I don't have time for this. I'm not gonna be good at it. I don't have time to start an Etsy shop. And I'm like, no one needs an Etsy shop, Felicia. Like, they're not trying to buy your weird crochet things.

Val Selby [00:16:10]:
Right. Yeah. It's kinda like the cricket I finally bought myself, I think, 3, 2 Christmases ago, and on I used it once. 

Alicia Johnson [00:16:18]:
Yeah. So have it. Yeah. It's relatable.

Val Selby [00:16:21]:
And definitely because well, for me, also, you're sitting at the computer means I'm working.

Alicia Johnson [00:16:27]:
Yep. Yep. Easy to check and email, and it just takes you out of that experience.

Val Selby [00:16:34]:
Yes. So I have to wrap my head around. How can I make this something fun and craft again? I used to love crafting. How can we do that again? What what does that look like?

Alicia Johnson [00:16:41]:
I love that.

Val Selby [00:16:44]:
Great. So I would love it if you talked about your new podcast.

Alicia Johnson [00:16:48]:
I have a perfect segue. It's kind of been my journey on doing things that I like to enjoy. So it's just called Authenticity with Alicia, and I do a lot of, like, Instagram stuff, and that's something that really fills my cup, and I do those little Instagram reels. And I found myself that you really can only talk for, like, 30 well, you can talk for, like, a couple minutes, but no one cares on Instagram. They don't wanna hear me talk for, like, 90 seconds to 3 minutes. Instagram, you want the short, fun, like, stuff. And I'm like, I wanna talk. I'm a talker.

Alicia Johnson [00:17:21]:
I wanna share stories. I wanna hear other people's stories. I wanna uplift other voices. And so and then I started to do some, like, podcast guest roles last year, and I was like, oh my gosh, like, this is my jam. Like, this just fills my cup up. And I've been on this journey of, like, really finding out more of my identity and embracing things and doing things for joy.

Alicia Johnson [00:17:42]:
And I was like, okay, like, it's all kinda coming together. And, again, I'm not alone in this. I've spoken to so many young adults, women in particular, who are just like, I don't have hobbies. Like, I don't know who I am outside of my job. I don't really have these other identity aspects. And how do you make friends? And I'm like, yes. Like, these are really important questions, and so I just wanted to share my experience and other people's experience and hope people can kind of relate and make that journey of finding themselves a little bit more enjoyable because that's a stressful process.

Val Selby [00:18:14]:
It is. And, yeah, I was, I don't remember. I was watching some show and oh, no. No. I started listening to a new audiobook, and they were talking about, you know because it's 40 something and making new friends. And how in the heck do you even do that? It's 40 something and beyond. So I love this. This is exactly your podcast is exactly what I I am going to need to get some tips from.

Alicia Johnson [00:18:36]:
Oh, yeah. And I think I see in a lot of businesses, especially like solo entrepreneurs and small business owners, they're kind of asking themselves, like, well well, who am I in my business even? And, like, I am a one person show. And so sometimes it's easy to blur that line between, like, who I am in my business and what my business is and where I kind of am and I think a lot of people are asking themselves, who am I? How do I wanna express myself? How can I have these values and personalities in my business even, I think it's just like a timely conversation.

Val Selby [00:19:09]:
Yeah. Absolutely. Oh, yeah. Well, definitely. Everyone, it's gonna be in the show notes so you can go and check it out. We'll all be subscribers because we all want these tips of getting out of our business and getting more out of life, which is of what I love.

Alicia Johnson [00:19:22]:
Yes. For sure.

Val Selby [00:19:23]:
I love it. Because that's why we are entrepreneurs.

Alicia Johnson [00:19:26]:
Yes.

Val Selby [00:19:26]:
Is to enjoy the life part and yet-

Alicia Johnson [00:19:29]:
It gets lost.

Val Selby [00:19:30]:
It gets lost. Yeah. We shove it to the side a little bit too much, I feel. So so I love that.  

Alicia Johnson [00:19:38]:
Yeah. We're all like, I'm gonna work less. And it's like, now I work a lot.

Val Selby [00:19:42]:
Yeah. Yeah. Perfect perfect podcast timing for me. Is there anything that you would love to leave as a end note for the listeners?

Alicia Johnson [00:19:51]:
Oh, I think something that I also work a lot with is just like yreating ourselves kindly, like, with burnout and just our journey for authenticity. Like, we're gonna make mistakes along the way. We're not gonna get it right the first on time and so just, like, treating ourselves like we would a friend. I'm very into self compassion. And so, like, if you're hearing this, like, it sounds so much easier on said than done, and it's easier on the other side of things. So take what I say with a grain of salt. This is not always an easy road, but it is so so worth it, and just of practice lots of kindness to ourselves.

Val Selby [00:20:28]:
I love that. Yeah. Because that's - I mean, that's something I'm working on as well. I mean, it's always a journey. I mean, there's no point. There's only one point when we get to the end, and that's it. It's growth.

Alicia Johnson [00:20:41]:
Exactly.

Val Selby [00:20:41]:
Everything is growth on that journey. Awesome. Oh, thank you so much, Alicia, for coming and talking and bringing up the burnout. And I know there's some tips in there for you guys to take in, if you're feeling that burnout feeling, start looking for the flags like Alicia was saying and especially the self compassion. It's hard. It's hard. You know, like you said, especially as as females, we're used to taking care of everybody else and

Alicia Johnson [00:21:07]:
Yep.

Val Selby [00:21:07]:
It's really hard to kinda start doing the inner work and looking at ourselves and seeing our faults.

Alicia Johnson [00:21:17]:
Ain't that the truth?

Val Selby [00:21:19]:
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being here today, Alicia. I appreciate you.

Alicia Johnson [00:21:22]:
Thank you so much for having me. This was a great chat.

Val Selby [00:21:25]:
Everyone, you're gonna find all about Alicia in the show notes. So jump on in there and follow her. I know if you just resonated with this one, you're gonna wanna jump on and go get that podcast for sure. Let's bump her podcast up. Thank you, Alicia.

Alicia Johnson [00:21:41]:
Thank you.