Val Selby [00:00:06]:
Hey, this is Val Selby and after over 20 years online, I can track where my mindset has blocked me. If procrastination, impostor syndrome and a lack of focus have been blocking your biz, then Val Full Volume is here to help you see choices you are making. Get ready to use your expertise to collaborate like a pro as you create the business of your dreams. Now is the time to make changes and live your best life. Let's get to it!   

Val Selby [00:00:36]:
Hello, everyone. So I've already been chatting with my guests a little bit behind, and I swear I didn't have a ton of coffee. So but I feel like I did because it's like, blah blah blah blah blah already. So it'll be really good. But I was telling Emily, I swear she's in my head when I'm looking at her website. So I can't wait to have this conversation with you, Emily, because like we're talking before, listeners know that I love having people on here because I'm getting just as much information out of all of the gas. Sometimes I feel like I'm getting more, and that's why I come in to share. It's part of my expertise is sharing. So thank you for being here, Emily, and I can't wait to dig into this.

Emily Walker [00:01:15]:
Oh, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited. We're gonna have so much fun.

Val Selby [00:01:18]:
I love it because, I mean, bringing people on and they know what their expertise is, it's like, yes. Yes. So, Emily, would you tell my listeners about yourself and what you do?

Emily Walker [00:01:32]:
Yes. For sure. So I am a course creation expert, also known as a transformation architect. I've been called a course doula. I feel like I go by a lot of different titles. But basically, what I love doing, what my zone of genius is is taking all of that juicy brilliance that's in your brain and kind of Marie Kondo-ing it into an intentional offer, scalable program, offer ecosystem so that you can really help more people get them more results without, like, putting more stuff on your calendar. Because I know, like, people who are such talented service providers, and you're like, I have so much to give. I have so much to share, but I don't wanna just, like, fire hose my people with everything that's in my brain because that sounds like a nightmare.

Val Selby [00:02:14]:
Because some of us have done that, and it is a nightmare.

Emily Walker [00:02:17]:
It is a nightmare. I think we've all experienced it. We're all, like, okay. What are all the things I know? And then you're, like, oh, this is a little bit like opening the door and hearing internal screaming. Like, we don't want that. So how do we actually architect it into a program that gets results, that gets people to the transformation that we feel confident in, that we're like, I'm so excited to deliver this because it feels like me. It doesn't feel like someone else.

Val Selby [00:02:37]:
I know one thing that I have struggled with over the, well, since I realized it, so probably the last 5 years, is trying to help too much with everything. Right? So much information.

Emily Walker [00:02:54]:
It's like all the things.

Val Selby [00:02:55]:
Yeah. It's like if you give everybody all of the information, they take none of it. Right?

Emily Walker [00:03:00]:
Yeah. Absolutely. And I think that's because often we're, like, I just wanna teach you all the things. I wanna give you all the information. I wanna give you all the content. And it comes from this place of love, this place of, like, I really, really wanna help. And the hardest thing is to remind ourselves that, like, information doesn't actually help anyone. Like, transformation doesn't come from information.

Emily Walker [00:03:17]:
Transformation comes from being able to take action and being able to implement. And often when we give people too much information, it muddies the waters and people are like, okay, this is great. I feel really inspired, but what am I supposed to do? And then they just don't do anything versus if we can give people, like, 2 really core action steps and a little, like, sprinkling of info so that they know how to take action, that's when it really becomes a game changer.

Val Selby [00:03:41]:
Yeah. And I know because you're not the first one that's come into my circle with more of this training and teaching, and you're coming from a teaching background. Right?

Emily Walker [00:03:57]:
Yeah. So I got my start in the kind of corporate space as a learning designer. So I originally thought I was going to be a teacher, and I was like, yeah, nope, that's not for me. And in the corporate space or even in, like, academia, it is so common to know that just because you're a subject matter expert doesn't mean you know how to teach it. And so you bring in people like me where my role is to, like, you're the subject matter expert, and I am taking all of that expertise and helping you craft it into how do you teach it, how do you present it, how do you support people. And so that was kind of, like, my jam for a couple of years, and I was designing, like, courses and workshops and certification programs at, like, universities, governments, corporations.

Emily Walker [00:04:38]:
But the subject matter started to really, like, drain my soul, like, with, like, compliance training and, like, workplace bullying and hazardous materials and mold and stuff. And I was, like, okay, I need something more invigorating, and that's really when I started transitioning to the entrepreneurial space. So I was, like, wow. People are doing such cool things. Like, how can I help them?

Val Selby [00:04:56]:
Yeah. And you nailed it on one thing that I've loved talking to so many different women that have come from corporate world or academia. And you said it's well known in that format, in that niche, that this is what you do. And yet here in entrepreneurial world, we think, well, we're supposed to do, like, be bored with everything then, I think. 

Emily Walker [00:05:19]:
Yeah. But we know how to do, therefore, we know how to use. And it's so funny because, like, in our businesses, we are very, like I think the thing that most people cling to is I don't know how to market. I don't know how to sell. I better hire a copywriter, hire a marketing coach, hire this, that, or the other, which is, like, great to recognize when you don't have as much confidence in those things. And yet, for other stuff, we feel like we just inherently are like, yeah, of course, I should know. I'm an expert. Therefore, I should be able to package this up and teach it.

Emily Walker [00:05:41]:
And it's like, oh, no. No. That's a whole different skill set, and it's totally okay to recognize that you don't have it. Like, very few people are natural inherent teachers, and I think anyone, even someone with a ton I've been doing this for over a decade, and sometimes when I'm designing my own courses, I still need an external set of eyes because you get so close to your expertise. Everything feels, like, second nature to you, and you don't know what, like, the gaps are that someone else might need help with or something that so often this happens with my clients. They're like, oh, that's not even that important. Like, whatever. And I'm like, that is like a gem.

Emily Walker [00:06:14]:
This is a treasure that we need to pull out and celebrate. Like, this is huge.

Val Selby [00:06:19]:
Yeah. Because it's all those little things that, I mean, that's why we're teaching it is because it comes natural and easy, and it's already in our brain and flowing. And everybody else is going, wait, wait, wait, back. What? Back up.

Emily Walker [00:06:30]:
Okay. Like record scratch moment, like, wait. Like, that was, like, life changing for me. And you're like, oh, I like I didn't even think about that.

Val Selby [00:06:38]:
Right. Right. Yeah. So listening to you say that, it sounds like you are able to look at that from outside coming in and being able to point out more of those things. 

Emily Walker [00:06:48]:
Yeah. Absolutely. Because really, it's always better if the less I know about your subject matter area. Like, when I work with clients because I'm like, I am usually in the shoes of your client. We're like the person that you're trying to teach her. I'm like, okay. I need to make sure I understand this.

Emily Walker [00:07:02]:
Walk me through these steps. And, like, the kind of role of someone like me, the role of a learning designer is to look at the experience you're crafting from so many different lenses. So there's the lens of, like, just the base level learner. How do we go from Point A to Point B, like, step by step and make sure that we're not missing any gaps, we're not missing any things. Because sometimes, this happens all the time that I see in courses when I'm doing audits. It's like, oh, yeah. Just fill out this workbook. And it's like, okay.

Emily Walker [00:07:26]:
But have you walked through examples? Have you walked through how to fill out the workbook? Have you walked out, like, best practices? Because a lot of entrepreneurs are perfectionists, and if they can't do it right the first time, they're not gonna do it at all. And that applies to homework in courses too. 

Val Selby [00:07:37]:
Oh, yeah. 

Emily Walker [00:07:38]:
It's like premeditating those barriers, but also looking at it through the lens of, like, if someone was neurodivergent, how do we make this accessible for them? If someone has experienced trauma, what needs to be in place in our programs? Like, there's so many different lenses that need to come in to make an experience transformational. And it's unrealistic to think that we could do that for ourselves. Like, it we are naturally inherently so fused with our genius that, like, it's very hard to pull yourself out and go, okay, wait, how do I architect this all?

Val Selby [00:08:07]:
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Because I remember back a few years ago on another website, I brought in a Pinterest manager, and she went to my website. And she's just like, I don't even know what you do. And, of course, in my brain, I'm like, what you talking about? You know?

Val Selby [00:08:25]:
She's like, I really and she went through and did it, like, a video audit of it and all that. And I was like, oh my gosh. You're so right.

Emily Walker [00:08:34]:
Like, oh. Oh, I see. Like, I get this now. And it's like it's it's just it's almost like a different, like, cultural practice where everyone is different. Everyone does things differently. And so for us, what's so like, well, yeah, obvious. You just do it this way. For someone else's, like, I'm sorry, what?

Emily Walker [00:08:48]:
Can you redefine your terms? Can you, like, tell me what's happening here?

Val Selby [00:08:52]:
Right. Where am I starting, and what do you do?

Emily Walker [00:08:58]:
Yeah. You got it. Okay. What are these things?

Val Selby [00:09:00]:
Yep. I know there's been times where I've asked people that I know really aren't even in the online space, and I've had them go take a look at things. And that's even more eye opening, especially have my husband go to a website and he is mister-don't-like-tech-unless-it's-YouTube, and have him go to something and he's just like, where? What? Huh? Like, thank you. That's the feedback I was looking for.

Emily Walker [00:09:26]:
Yeah. It's like, okay. Like, wait. What's happening? And I think it's so interesting. I don't know, like, you're you're such a big proponent for this of, like, knowing your people and, like, who are you talking to? And it's the same thing when we're designing these learning journeys. Because in the same way, if someone is a beginner, we wanna make sure, like you said, like, they're like, wait, what? What am I looking at? What am I how does this make sense? And on the other hand, very often, people are also supporting people with their programs that aren't absolutely, like, baby beginners. And so it's all about knowing, like, who is your person and what do they already have? What skills are they already bringing? What knowledge are they already bringing? What, like, mindset are they bringing with them? It's like, what's in their backpack already before they set off on this adventure and what's missing so that we can literally lay the pathway at their feet, like, step by step.

Val Selby [00:10:08]:
Yeah. Because it's a completely different conversation. Completely different. I I ran into somebody yesterday, and we started talking. And so then I'm asking, do we have a website? Because she was at her job, and she's, like, under her breath. Well, I really wanna quit and just do all full time. I'm like, but do you have a website? Are you taking client? No. I'm like, okay.

Val Selby [00:10:28]:
Totally different conversation with her, right, versus somebody else that's already going in here. We're gonna start a course. You're getting going. You got confidence.

Emily Walker [00:10:36]:
Yeah. Exactly. Because it it brings in so many layers of what kind of context are they bringing in, but, like, motivation, what they need from the beginning. I find beginners really need super bite sized, spoon feed them, literally said you're gonna do this action step with this template, with this piece. But the more experienced someone is, the more that they actually want that nuance. They want that complexity. They don't want you to distill it down because they're, like, I can't fit into a framework. Whereas someone who's newer is, like, give me a framework, please.

Emily Walker [00:11:04]:
And someone who's more advanced is, like, don't tell me what to do. Like, like, tell me how to think. Help me, like, kind of explore.

Val Selby [00:11:10]:
Right. And that leads me back to looking at your website because when I was looking at your let's Marie Kondo your brain, for one, absolutely talking to me because I've been Marie Kondo-ing my office for the last the last 6 days. So I was like, oh, wow. But then when you talked about the no more courses on courses, and it's all about marketing, I went, oh, my God, that's every one of them. I go there and I want not necessarily like you said, a framework, but just how am I gonna create this, and how am I gonna make it so they want to engage?

Emily Walker [00:11:47]:
Absolutely.

Val Selby [00:11:48]:
And not just market.

Emily Walker [00:11:50]:
Yeah. And not just market. And it's so funny because that is, like, really, like, why I started my business on the online spaces because I was seeing all of these marketers creating these courses on courses where it's like Step 1, come up with the topic. Step 2, dump out everything you know and just make a course. Step 3 to 17, here's how to build a funnel and and market it. Yeah. And I'm like, okay. Yes.

Emily Walker [00:12:10]:
We need marketing strategies sometimes, but we need to have a product or an offer that we believe in, that we're confident in, that we know it's gonna get people results, like, that's where the bulk of our time should go. Especially because, like, when you design a really strong offer, people are gonna go through it. They're gonna get results. They're gonna tell all their friends. They're gonna shout about it from the rooftops. That's the best marketing strategy out there. Yes, you can get fancy with funnels and launches and, like, all of that stuff.

Emily Walker [00:12:35]:
But my approach to marketing has always been, like, you're a human wanting to help other humans. So talk to them like a human, and it's gonna work out.

Val Selby [00:12:42]:
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Definitely. Yeah. And, yeah, now my brains I gotta be present. Now my brain's going, oh, wait, one of your workshops is not talking to a certain new market for exactly that reason. It's, okay, now we're gonna go create that, and there's no step by step for the creating that.

Val Selby [00:12:58]:
It's a checklist, but it's not helping him through that process.

Emily Walker [00:13:02]:
Yeah. 

Val Selby [00:13:02]:
I need to go do another one.

Emily Walker [00:13:06]:
But we really need to cover that. And it's really it's so natural that when we're like, oh, well, like, this is what people are asking for, this is what we need, but it's like, we wanna make sure it'd be like trying to build a piece of IKEA furniture and you're missing half the pieces. It's like, oh, yeah, I wanted to build this chair. That's like, yep, no seat for you. It's like we need to teach them all of the pieces, and I just noticed that so often, like, I would have my clients would come to me after investing. Some of them were in these, like, 20, $3,000 programs that are all about, like, launching and, like, having these, like, high ticket group programs. And they would come to me and they'd be like, yeah. Like, the marketing side of it was great, but I still have no idea what my program is. I'm not confident in it. I don't know that, like, my people are gonna get results.

Emily Walker [00:13:44]:
And it's like, yeah. We need to do something about that.

Val Selby [00:13:46]:
Mhmm. Yeah. And I'm doing the huge air quotes of how many workshops I have bought to create your signature program. And I'm like, oh, still don't have a clue. Okay. Thanks.

Emily Walker [00:14:01]:
Yeah. Because I I find so many people are just regurgitating what they've seen others do, and it's like the people kind of at the top of the copying are not educational experts. They're not transformation experts. They're marketing experts. So they're just like, I'm gonna pick something that's super juicy, super sexy that someone wants, and I'm just gonna kinda brain dump on it. And they're also not talking about, look at how I designed this course and all the amazing results my students got. They're like, look at how I designed this course and look how much money I made. And it's like, that tells me people came into your course, but it doesn't tell me anything about how they came out of it.

Emily Walker [00:14:34]:
And that's the difference for heart centered entrepreneurs where it's like, yeah, we love the idea of create an offer in a weekend, like, whip it up in 24 hours, like, outline it and get it up for sale. And what ends up happening is you feel like something's wrong with you when you're like, oh, wait. This is taking longer. Or I started trying to presale this thing, and now I'm so stressed how we deliver it, and I don't know what I'm gonna deliver. And it's because in the real world, that's not how it works. You need months, like, literally months to map out and design and build an offer.

Emily Walker [00:15:02]:
And that's just the reality of it. Can you put it onto a consolidated timeline if you have absolutely nothing else going on and you have, like, so much caffeine, but what's the point? Like, why do you wanna, like, rush something that's that important and that integral to your business?

Val Selby [00:15:16]:
Yeah. And I know one of the other aspects of that was there's been plenty of times I have thrown together a workshop, especially like something that was like a squirrel, you know, squirrel over there because somebody asked for something, so I made a workshop for the one person that ever asked me about it. And then I wasn't happy with it because I did it so fast.

Val Selby [00:15:37]:
Then, of course, I'm not marketing it. 

Emily Walker [00:15:39]:
Yeah. Yeah. 

Val Selby [00:15:40]:
I wasn't proud of it.

Emily Walker [00:15:41]:
Not proud of it. No. I feel good about it. Or I see this all the time with, like, clients where, like, they literally cringe when people buy it if it's still up for sale at all because they're, like, oh, I'm gonna get, like, a refund request or someone's gonna hate it. And it's, like, if you feel that way about something, either you have an offer and you're not marketing it or you have an offer and you, like, kind of low key or stress when people buy it, that tells me that you're not, like, really rock solid in the curriculum, that you're not really feeling good about the structure. And, again, there's nothing wrong with that because you haven't been taught. Like, this is not, like, a common thing. Like, people often think about, like, oh, I need a copywriter for my website or I need a graphic designer.

Emily Walker [00:16:14]:
I need launch strategy. Like, these are all things we know we need, and a lot of people don't realize, like, yeah, this whole thing around architecting an offer, it's a whole area of expertise that we all need. We just don't talk about it.

Val Selby [00:16:26]:
Yeah. Well, I think because a lot of people, we don't even know it's a thing. We're just. And the hilarious thing is I'm just changing the tagline for the podcast to "Uncoaching the Decades of Biz BS."

Emily Walker [00:16:40]:
Oh my gosh. I love that.

Val Selby [00:16:42]:
Because that is what I have been doing and what you were talking about, all of that garbage that we're told, this is how you have to do everything.

Emily Walker [00:16:49]:
It's it's garbage. I literally, like, wrote this email, like, raging to my list the other week that I was, like, this is what I hate about my business. And I was, like, I hate it's like a love hate thing. I hate that so much of my business is undoing the damage that has been done by all these bro and boss babe marketer people that are, like, sitting I call it, like, the health, wealth, sex kind of the holy trinity of marketing where they're like, well, look, I've made all of this money making money. I've made all of money selling sex or whatever. Yeah. That's great for you. But you're now teaching the exact same really toxic, really problematic principles and then people are either trying them and burning out and then shutting down their business or they're trying them and going, this doesn't feel good and then kind of floundering.

Val Selby [00:17:34]:
Right.

Emily Walker [00:17:35]:
And I was like, actually, like, there are no rules. You can literally fucking make it up, like, and it will work. Like, I think that's the thing that I wish people would like uh.

Val Selby [00:17:45]:
Yeah. And that's what I tell people. I'm like, if there was one way to do business, we'd all be doing it that exact same way. Just like if there was a magic weight loss pill, we would all be taking it. You know what I mean? 

Emily Walker [00:17:55]:
Yes.

Val Selby [00:17:56]:
There's no magic out there. Everything is different. Every person is different.

Emily Walker [00:18:01]:
Yeah. And I love that you brought up the weight loss thing because I very often compare the course creation industry to the fitness industry. Because in the fitness industry, the people that you see selling all those lose weight fast, it's the same way to take this pill or only drink celery juice or do these things and you'll lose 50 pounds in a month. And it's that same energy of, yeah, buy our webinar, pay $3,000 for our course, and you'll be you'll be making, like, passive income sipping margaritas on the beach within, like, a month. And it's like the unsexy part of the fitness industry is like you need to eat balanced, you need to move your body in a way that you love and it's gonna take time and over time, you're gonna adapt in a way that feels good for your body. And the unsexy truth of the course creation side of things is that passive income is bullshit.

Val Selby [00:18:43]:
I know. Right?

Emily Walker [00:18:45]:
There's no first thing of passive income. Like, there is basis income. There is scalable income. There is income that feels more passive, but this is something I say to my clients all the time. I'm like, anything you create, your course, your workshop, your toolkit, you should be updating that every so often. Not like every couple of months, but, like, at least every couple of years, it's a living, breathing thing. You're evolving. You're growing.

Emily Walker [00:19:09]:
You're learning more. Therefore, your offers are gonna grow and change more. Like, I, myself, I'm updating all of my courses this year because I was like, I have new things I wanna add in and adapt to the ecosystem. And so it's not just like one and done, whip it out really quick, which is why it's even more important to take the time.

Val Selby [00:19:26]:
Right. And there's so many times that I mean, we can relook at it. I mean, because yeah, like I said, I am needing a prequel to one of my favorite workshops, and that just turns into a funnel. Right? Because I've got the prequel to bring in the new people, and then they can go to the other one and they'll have that understanding.

Emily Walker [00:19:46]:
Yeah. Absolutely. And I think as entrepreneurs, one of our gifts is we see the connections. And we're like, oh, well, people need this in order to do this, in order to do this. And all of a sudden, the scope just starts turning into this, like, giant snowball of, like, how am I supposed to do this? And it's the reminder is always, it's okay to draw the scope to say, hey. In this workshop, this is the goal of this workshop. Here's how I'm gonna get you there. You're gonna have the most success if you've already done ABC.

Emily Walker [00:20:09]:
If you don't have ABC, check out this other workshop or check out this program and an affiliate. We can always draw boundaries to keep things realistic. It's not about having to give people everything all at once. It's just about telling them, here's how I'm gonna support you in this specific scope. And if you need things outside of scope, here's how to find the answers. Here's where to go. Here's where to go. Yeah.

Emily Walker [00:20:28]:
And I think that's something that we often forget. It's like, it's okay if you don't solve everything in one offer.

Val Selby [00:20:34]:
It's actually, I think, more than okay because it's more authentic. And people are gonna be like, oh, okay. I mean, even if you're sending them to another person with an affiliate link or something, it's like it's that authenticity that you're like, I can't help you, but I know who can.

Emily Walker [00:20:53]:
Yeah. Exactly. It's like, this is my zone of genius. This is what I'm really good at, or this is what I love. Because, also, sometimes there are things we're good at, but it kills our soul. And it's like, that's okay if you don't wanna do that and say that, like, I know I'm best serving you and best serving the world when I'm focusing on the things I absolutely love. Like, when I was in the corporate space, I would actually build out people's courses for them. So I do all the slides, all the workbooks, I edit the videos because it's just kind of like a one stop shop in the corporate world.

Emily Walker [00:21:20]:
And when I first started my business, I was like, oh, I'll do that too. And I was like, oh, wait. I hate this. I love the learning design. I love the curriculum structure. I love the strategy. I love the architecture of it all. And I was like, I don't love the actual build out, so I don't do that.

Emily Walker [00:21:35]:
I point people to, like, people that I trust that do it. I have a course teaching people how to do it. I have other things. But I know that if I'm spending my time and energy building out someone's slides for them, my brain is gonna bleed out of my ears. And then I'm not lit up, so I'm not helping anyone. It's about being, like, what lights you up and also what are you good at so that you can, like, be in best service.

Val Selby [00:21:56]:
And you guys listening, this isn't, like, something you start out doing. I mean, so many, especially for services. I mean, so much of the time, I didn't know what services I was gonna like or what parts of the services I would like it not like until I'm doing them. And then the fifth time I'm doing it, I'm like, yeah, I'm done with this tech madness. It doesn't light me up to conquer that tech issue anymore. So.

Emily Walker [00:22:24]:
No. Not at all. And I yeah. I love that permission to evolve. I think that's the beauty of it is we don't have to stay the same. And I think that's why people are getting so sick of those marketing dudes because they're not changing. And it's the world is changing and people are, like, craving something different. We're creating authenticity.

Emily Walker [00:22:40]:
We're craving rawness. And I think there's this beautiful shift that's happening in the online space where people are, like, we wanna see the human. We don't want a picture perfect Instagram feed filled with stock photos. We don't want you to be curated all the time. We don't want these epically huge signature courses. It's like we want to connect with the human and feel the human and show me pictures of your cat. Tell me what you love watching. Talk to me like a human and then and share how does that come into how you show up and how you teach and, like, the soul that you give to your work.

Val Selby [00:23:10]:
Yeah. And don't tell me as a newbie entrepreneur that I'm only gonna work 2 or 3 hours a week.

Emily Walker [00:23:15]:
I know. I don't know who started that.

Val Selby [00:23:18]:
Lord. I am so overhearing that right now. It's just like, if you're only working 2 or 3 hours a week, because we'll use your expertise right here, then their course is obviously shit because they didn't put any time into it.

Emily Walker [00:23:33]:
Yeah. Their course is fair. And then that's the other thing is, like, why they're, like, biking, like, oh, yeah. Like, I made this entire course, like, in a day. I'd be, like, cool. No. Thank you. Like, like, I don't want this.

Val Selby [00:23:43]:
Right? You mean, you AI'd it?

Emily Walker [00:23:46]:
Oh my gosh. Oh, don't even get me started on using AI for courses. So that'd be a whole another episode, Val. 

Val Selby [00:23:52]:
Don't need to get you on that soapbox. We got enough of them. Right? .

Emily Walker [00:23:55]:
Mhmm Yeah. I was like, I can it's, like, hours on, like, why we don't wanna do that.

Val Selby [00:24:00]:
Right. Right. Right.

Val Selby [00:24:02]:
No. It it seems like it's something that I'm seeing, but I'm hoping that more people are realizing that if you aren't coming into work only 2 to 3 hours a week, you're not coming in to be an entrepreneur. You don't wanna be an entrepreneur. You just don't. You wanna go be a trophy wifer. Go find yourself a sugar mama or something.

Emily Walker [00:24:25]:
Then I would say, just to challenge that a little bit, I think it's okay if you only have 2 or 3 hours a week depending on are you a single parent? Are you a spoonie? Do you have limitations? But I think it's like we wanna balance the expectation of you if you only have 2 or 3 hours a week, the growth is gonna be way slower. And there's nothing wrong with that. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But if you can't have the expectation of someone who's doing 20, 30, 60, 80, a 150 hours a week, but it is a time thing. And so I think it's the problem comes when people say, oh, and only, like, 3 hours a week, but often what they're not talking about is how they're exploiting someone down line. I only work 3 hours a week, but I have a VA in the Philippines that I pay a dollar an hour. It's like yeah. Like, that's not okay.

Emily Walker [00:25:08]:
So it's either you work less and you're exploiting or you have maybe you are paying people a proper wage, but you've got a ton of money in the bank, which is also a layer of privilege. So I think it's all about, like, finding what works for you but being realistic about your expectations. Like, that even coming to what we're talking about how long it takes to build a course when people are like, oh, I really wanna get this done in, like, a month. Like, you can if that's the only thing you're doing and you have, like, you don't have a lot of client delivery, you don't have family responsibilities, you don't have anything else, you can just put your head down, power out the course. If you can't do that, that's fine, but you need to be realistic about how much time you have.

Val Selby [00:25:44]:
Mhmm. Yeah. But I stuck in I was talking to members a while ago because I still have this bad habit. If I was gonna work on a sales page for somebody, I would budget in 3 or 4 hours, right, to work on that page just to get the first draft going. For me, I expect it done in 15 minutes. Yeah.

Emily Walker [00:26:04]:
Yeah. But, like, of course, I can do that in 15 minutes. It's fine. And then they're like, what are we talking?

Val Selby [00:26:09]:
Yeah. I haven't even figured out a template yet for what I think you said in 15 minutes.

Val Selby [00:26:14]:
It's just yeah. Being realistic with the time for sure. But I was gonna say something about being authentic too, but I can't remember because that popped into my head that when you're taking the time and digging through it, you have that time to be more authentic and lead people down and even have just a better first draft, I would assume.

Emily Walker [00:26:33]:
Yeah. Well, because it's so much more grounded instead of, like I think it gives you the space to really be intentional. It gives you the space to go, like. So let's say you are, like, "Okay, I really struggle with copywriting so I'm gonna buy a template." If you're rushing, you're just gonna squish yourself into this template and it's gonna end up not feeling like you. But if you have the space to intentionally go, okay. I like this, but I don't like this. I wanna shift this. It just gives you that moment to, like, slow down and connect and be like, okay, like, why am I feeling like I need to rush? Like, where is this coming from opposed to being able to really, like, integrate it and be like, okay.

Emily Walker [00:27:06]:
Great. Like, I've got the space to connect to who do I wanna be? Like, how do I wanna show up? How do I want my people to feel? Who are my people? Giving yourself that space to be like, before I write anything, I really connect into "ah, this message is for like this client that I know who needs to hear this or for like my kind of like client avatar, whatever may be." But if you're rushing, that's usually when I, like, go back and I read it, and I go, this kind of sounds like nothing. What am I doing? And you're, like, in that intentional architecture of the experience.

Val Selby [00:27:36]:
Well, yeah. I mean, because like I said, I went to yours, I think I'm at your services page. And I'm reading it. And, obviously, you have a lot of thought into it because I'm looking at it going, yep. Yep. Yep. She's writing to me. You know? The thing.

Val Selby [00:27:51]:
Which is what we want because we want those people to be super connected.

Emily Walker [00:27:55]:
Yeah. Yeah. We want them to feel like, oh my gosh. Like, you're in my head. And, like, not in, like, a manipulative way. But just in a, like, wow, I feel so seen. And it's like you feel so seen so that you know that when you come into that program experience, you're gonna be so held. And I think it also gives us permission, like you said, that authenticity.

Emily Walker [00:28:11]:
Just have realize, like, we're not gonna be for everyone and everyone's not gonna be for us. And there's, like, more than enough to go around. Like, there's gonna be people who are, like, I love your flavor. I love someone else's flavor. I wanna learn from you this way so that we also don't feel like we have to show up differently. Even, like, when we're teaching, like, I I see this a lot with my clients with, like, the idea of recording videos for courses, like, stresses so many people out. And it's often because we feel like, okay, we're gonna hit record and we have to show up and be like this perfectly curated, like, expert of, like, let me teach you stuff in my course. And it's like, no.

Emily Walker [00:28:46]:
You're again, you're still showing up as you. Like, there's little tips and tricks we can do so that you're teaching lands and it's engaging. But in general, if you wanna just show up in your pajamas with your cat on your lap and be like, hey, let's talk about this thing. Awesome. Like, you don't have to be someone else. If you wanna be that perfectly curated person because you're like, this is where I thrive, go for it. But don't force yourself into it because you think that's what you're supposed to be.

Val Selby [00:29:09]:
Hey, once again, you're talking to me. I couldn't do anything except for live workshops for a few years because I would hit start over and over and over again because I expected perfection. I don't do anything to perfection, not anything. So it was ridiculous. But for some reason, I can get on live and no problem. I didn't matter if I was screwing up then.

Emily Walker [00:29:31]:
It's so funny these expectations we put on ourselves, like, why? Like, well, no one's accepting to be perfect because I'm human. And so I'm gonna, like, stumble over my words or need to take a drink of water, and it's yeah. You're still human when you're being recorded. It's still you. I mean, the tip I always share with people is just narrate what you're doing. If you're feeling nervous on video and you're, like, I need to check my notes or I need water or something's happening, say, I'm just gonna check my notes real quick or I'm just gonna grab a drink of water or, oh, my cat's climbing on the lap. Here we go.

Val Selby [00:29:57]:
Yep. Yep.

Val Selby [00:29:58]:
Because it's hilarious. Because there's the other side of I mean, I have so many friends that are the exact opposite. Oh my god. I would never do live blah blah blah. What if I don't know what to say? I'm like, well, then you just sit there. It's alright. You're not gonna total opposite. We put so much stress on ourselves.

Emily Walker [00:30:13]:
Yeah. It's like it's totally fine. I think, yeah, we put so much pressure on ourselves.

Val Selby [00:30:18]:
We've had a lot of tidbits in here that are awesome, so I don't wanna go too much because like you said, I want implementation, people. We want you to get that stuff that you just got from this episode and go do some. So, Emily, I'm looking at your website, and I know as of right now for recording, you've got a wait list for your workshops. Do you know about when those are coming out, or is that a target date or not?

Emily Walker [00:30:47]:
So it's really exciting. As of this recording, I am working on, like, a whole new brand refresh, new website design. It's coming out really soon. It's the most gorgeous thing ever. And to celebrate that, I'm actually reopening up all of my courses for sale because I closed them because I'm updating all the curriculum this year. But I was like, you know what's really fun? Is, like, letting people get in on the old price that they're gonna get the full new course when it comes out. So those are probably by the time this podcast comes out, they're gonna be open for sale. And basically, for me, I just really love to have ways where people can get support from me, kind of whichever budget you have, whether you want my self study programs, which leads you through my process for, like, designing, building, creating your course, whether you wanna come into my Incubator, which is like a group program where you like, I'm literally coaching you through the whole process and giving you feedback along the way, or you wanna work together 1 to 1.

Emily Walker [00:31:36]:
But there's all sorts of goodies on my site, including some free courses to help you get started.

Val Selby [00:31:41]:
Awesome. Perfect. Then I will make sure that all that stuff's gonna be in the show notes, everybody. So once again, with any guest, you're gonna have resonated with Emily or not, but you're gonna wanna go to her site and grab more information from her. So it's all down there in the show notes. Emily, is there anything you'd like to leave the listeners with?

Emily Walker [00:31:59]:
I think the main thing I would just wanna leave people with is just, like, whenever you're putting that pressure on yourself, whenever you're, like, feeling like things are feeling really hard or overwhelming or, like, why isn't it working for me? A question I like to come back to is just, how could I make this almost too fun? What would make this ridiculously fun or ridiculously not easy because it things do take work, but ease full. So whether it's like you're putting pressure on yourself to map out your curriculum or you're needing to record videos or show up live or even if it has nothing to do with course creation, it's like something else in your business. Just ask yourself, what would I do if I could make this so stupidly fun? And very often, like, that's what you should do. But it's like, I would record this. I'd rent to a really nice Airbnb. I could record it in Airbnb, or I'd go right at a cafe, or I would just give myself permission to write it the first time and send the email and not stress about it. Like, whatever it may be. I think it gets to be useful and it gets to be fun.

Emily Walker [00:32:49]:
That's why we run our own businesses. Yeah.

Val Selby [00:32:51]:
Oh, that's so true. Yes. Fabulous. Absolutely love it. Thank you so much for being here, Emily. I appreciate you being here. This has been awesome fun.

Emily Walker [00:32:59]:
Thank you so much for having me. It's been great.

Val Selby [00:33:01]:
We'll talk to you guys again next week.